User talk:Heroldicas

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Heroldicas!

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 21:47, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

How to ask for speedy-delete of an empty category

When you want to ask for speedy-delete of an empty category, best practice is to mark it with {{SD|C2}} if it would be OK to re-create it in the future, given that appropriate content becomes available or {{SD|C1}} if it is an inappropriate category name that should not be reused. In particular, this is better practice than just making an untemplated note on the category page as you did at Category:Słodowski family (which I've deleted). ("C1" and "C2" come from Commons:Criteria for speedy deletion). - Jmabel ! talk 05:14, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your time and help! Heroldicas (talk) 08:16, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Miklaszewski family

Hi ;-)

Are you interested in the family history of the Miklaszewski family? I told you that I have been working on a draft for an article about the family for more than 2 years now and will publish it soon. I am almost ready. Would you like to translate it later into Polish (I guess you speak Polish)? I will publish it in Bulgarian and translate it into German, English, and Russian. If you know one of these languages, it would be great to have it in Polish as well, and perhaps you can add some new pieces of information.

Best regards, Liglioto (talk) 16:07, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Of course! Let's do it :) Heroldicas (talk) 16:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I have many sources of informations for Polish line so we can work on it Heroldicas (talk) 16:09, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

OK, great! :)

I'll get back to you as soon as my draft is ready.

In the meantime, if you like, you could correct/expand the English (and/or perhaps the Polish) article about the Ostoja coat of arms.

I have been working on it for about 1.5 years, as preparatory work for the Miklashevsky article. My work was, however, in Bulgarian.

There were no good sources in either the Polish or the English article. There was a lot of information that was not substantiated at all. Or it just said that some roll of arms from the Middle Ages contained the Ostoja coat of arms, but there was no concrete link. I researched all the old armorial books in various (French, German, Belgian) libraries and archives and took pictures and included them in the article with proper references and URL links as good, publicly accessible sources.

I think the article turned out quite well. I wanted to finish my article about the Miklashevskys and then I planned to translate both (Ostoja and Miklashevsky) into German, Russian and English. Perhaps you could start with the first one.

It's in Bulgarian, but maybe DeepL or Google Translate will help for a rough understanding. I suppose, you have quite deep knowledge and rich context in turms of heraldry, so it will be easy for you to understand.

I have already called for cooperation on the Polish discussion page within the Ostoja article, but no one has responded yet. Liglioto (talk) 16:54, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I'll translate informations you made on Bulgarian Wiki to the Polish Wiki. If you are interested, I have a huge number of Polish sources related to the Ostoja coat of arms. What do you propose, what is your plan? Heroldicas (talk) 12:50, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Great, thank you! If you want and have capacity, it would be amazing if you would translate also into English, and I will translate into German and Russian. Liglioto (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Category:Coats of arms of Klinski family

The name of this familiy starts with a K. This is a fact. So why do you re-edit this? Please explain your reason. GerritR (talk) 06:42, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Category:Coats of arms of families of Poland on K - check this category and you will answer your question. It's simply about relative aesthetics. Thanks for understanding. Heroldicas (talk) 10:18, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

This answer is neither an explanation nor a reason. Sorting by the names of the families is a reason.--GerritR (talk) 19:26, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Aesthetics in subcategories is the reason. You wrote that "The name of this family starts with a K. This is a fact." Of course it is a fact, that's why the category is called Category:Coats of arms of families of Poland on K and not Category:Coats of arms of families of Poland on C.

I only changed the SORTING METHOD to "C" so that all files are properly ordered in the category in which the files themselves are located, to "K", stop bothering me with unimportant matters. Heroldicas (talk) 10:34, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

I think it's not as unimportant as you may think. In most countries the names of the families are used as key for the order of the subcategories. For example in Germany, Austria, France, Denmark etc. This makes sense, because if you look for the coat of arms of a family, the order by name helps a lot. “Aesthetics” won't help at all. So it's not only about the sorting key of the Category:Coats of arms of Klinski family, it's about the way these categories are sorted in general regarding polish families.--GerritR (talk) 19:23, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

FIRSTLY. The category in which Category:Coats of arms of Klinski family is located contains two types of files:

a) Categories that are the names of the coats of arms of many families

b) Categories which are the names of specific families and their private coats of arms.

The problem you are creating results from a lack of understanding of Polish heraldry as a whole. In Poland, coats of arms have their own names, unlike other countries. These coats of arms were sometimes used by thousands of different families. It is therefore LOGICAL that these two types of categories should be separated from each other (i.e. categories of coat of arms names and categories of families with their coats of arms).

If someone were looking for the coats of arms of a specific family, they would look for them in the first row, if someone was looking for the name of the coat of arms, they would look for them in the second row.

This also refutes the argument you gave:

"In most countries the names of the families are used as key for the order of the subcategories. For example in Germany, Austria, France, Denmark etc. This makes sense, because if you look for the coat of arms of a family, the order by name helps a lot."

The way of sorting these categories is good, clear, logical and aesthetic, yours does not stick to any of these things.

SECONDLY. If you have a problem with me about categorizing subcategories in this way, then in addition to understanding the information I provided, you would have to enter each category related to the topic of Polish nobility coats of arms from A to Z and change the order of all the subcategories there, which also makes no sense.

Thanks for understanding! Heroldicas (talk) 23:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

It took several days, but now we have an explanation. This is what I asked for. (auf Deutsch: Warum nicht gleich?)--GerritR (talk) 22:55, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

I didn't want to waste my time, but unfortunately I had to do it. Next time do more research before making accusations Heroldicas (talk) 10:36, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/02/Category:Coats of arms of families of Poland by name--GerritR (talk) 21:35, 24 February 2024 (UTC)