Commons:Categories for discussion/2010/01/History of the Czech Republic and some of subcategories

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Category:History of the Czech Republic and some of subcategories[edit]

Unlike other countries which are specified by timeless or long-life geographical name, the Czech Republic is called by the official name of the current state corporation and regime which has a short history (since 1969 in the framework of the Czechoslovak federation, since 1993 as an independent state). Modern photographies can be categorized as "from the Czech Republic" but in case of special categories of historical themes and periods, this name sounds absurdly.

There are names of separate Czech lands (Bohemia, Moravia, Czech Silesia) but no short name of the whole Czech country is fully established. The historical name of Czech Kingdom area is Czech Lands (it involved Bohemia, Moravia and in some periods parts of Silesia and both Lusatias). In the modern period (before 1918 and during the early Czechoslovakia), Czech lands can be perceived as Bohemia, Moravia and Czech Silesia, but this name has historic connotations. The modern short names ("Česko" in Czech, "Czechia" in English) aren't fully and widely accepted yet (see the article Name of the Czech Republic).

We should find some acceptable treatment. We should choose from names "Czechia", "Czech Lands", "Czech lands" (Czechland, Czechlands) and "the Czech Republic" and to take a decision whether just one name will be used in all cases or one name in modern context and second one in historical context. Some content should be categorized into subcategories by the historical land (in Bohemia, in Moravia).

I am suggesting to use "in Czechia" generally (and to replace "in the Czech Republic" with it) or (if would the first proposal impassable) to use "in Czechia" or "in Czech lands" only in historical context and to keep "in the Czech Republic" in modern context. --ŠJů (talk) 17:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Discussion in Czech had begun at my talk page before this Cfd.)

I agree to this proposal and I would prefer "in Czechia" as well --anro (talk) 18:41, 20 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I strongly oppose to this proposal. There is not our fault that our country have its current state form in its name generally used on en: or Commons. We can percieve the word Republic here as a integral part of country's name with no special connotation of its government form. It is an equally valid and good name as Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, France or United States. Czech Republic is here merely a geographic designation we shoul use for media regarding present territory of the Czech Republic through its whole history. This is the same as Poland, Austria, Germany etc. is used for categories like Country in the XX century. Czech lands encompasses some territories (Silesia, Lusatia) which are covered under Poland or Germany, therefore it is unsuitable for division of topics along current state boundaries. For example we can list depictions of (nowadays Polish) town of Kłodzko under Category:Kingdom of Bohemia (1627-1740) because the town was part of Bohemia at that time but we shall not list it under Category:1648 in the Czech Republic (btw any perception of anachronism or oddity is gone when you imagine Czechia or Poland or Spain in the category name instead of the Czech Republic). I do not object the word Czechia in my everyday life outside Wikiedia but we use Czech Republic when referring our state and its territory almost universally here and on en:. So for overall simplicity we should use Czech Republic even for Coats of arms, Flags, Centuries, Decades and Years because they are related to present day territory, not to the territory valid at some more or less distant point of history. There are some templates giving an overview of various country/time-related topics and usage of both Czechia and Czech Republic in one place would be quite confusing (not sure whether this two name option can be easily incorporated in such templates at all). Czech Republic does not affect some categories used primarily for sake of historical periodization where historical territorial extent is the primary interest (e.g. Category:Czech lands under Habsburg Dynasty, Category:Margraviate of Moravia (1526-1628)). --Miaow Miaow (talk) 21:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I also agree to the proposal and strongly prefer the one-word, politically neutral form "Czechia". --Petrus Adamus (talk) 00:20, 21 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • In the abstract I like "Czechia", but the fact is that it has no currency at all among native English speakers. I'd be interested in seeing a different way out of this. Possibly "Czech lands"? - Jmabel ! talk 04:53, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Related categories:


The truth and reality is, that there no Czech Republic existet before 1918. Until the creation of this, the official and only name since hundred of years was Kingdom of Bohemia. If the czech nationalists cannot live with this historical fact, so for for heaven's sake the name Czechia should be used. -- Steinbeisser (talk) 09:07, 19 February 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
See related discussion Commons_talk:Categories#Category:Thirteen_Colonies_in_the_1700s.2C_etc. --Foroa (talk) 16:58, 19 February 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No Czech Republic existed before 1969 when Czechoslovakia was federalized. But Czech (non-republic) statehood and country has medieval history. The reason why "Czech Republic" is used instead of "Czechia" is not a Czech nationalism but the fact that there exist no widespread supertemporal name for Czech lands. The word "Czechia" is too rare and hence a bit controversial word, the term "Czech lands" is archaic and outlived (btw. Kingdom of Bohemia was only one of several Czech lands, i. e. of Lands of the Bohemian Crown), the term "Czech Republic" has its correct meaning only for the time since 1969 or even 1993. But as apparently, most of Czech as well as non-Czech users would support to use "Czechia" generally.
Btw, Category:United States in the 17th century is not problematic? There were no United States of America before 1776. --ŠJů (talk) 23:13, 19 February 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(See also this and this, a similar problem, with Rhineland-Palatinate). --ŠJů (talk) 00:22, 20 February 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You have right - even Category:United States in the 17th century as the "Rhineland-Palatinate in the 1920" is incorrect because at this time these countries didn't exist as such. I'm waiting for the next category will be established as "The Czech Republic during the time of the Dinosaur" or similiar. (Oh Lord, please help if you can - probably even he cannot in that special case!) - Steinbeisser (talk) 15:54, 5 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Categorization of history by the area of today's states can have any sense, especially regarding surviving architecture etc. However, categorization of mediavel or 19th century events by "Republic" looks very peculiarly. The problem is that "Czech lands" (Czechia) has very various extent in varous times. I think, as many historical content as possible should be categorized by historical lands ("Bohemia in the 1580s", "1645 in Moravia" etc. Categorization of the history of Lusatia and Silesia in relation to eventual "Czech lands" category should be discussed. The words Czech Republic should not appear before 1969, just as Czechoslovak categories don't exist for years before 1918 and past 1992. --ŠJů (talk) 19:16, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I am not fussed whether we use Czechia or Czech Republic (I lean slightly towards the latter, however), as log as the categories continue to pertain strictly to the lands which today constitute the Czech Republic. One should not require an in-depth knowledge of Czech history to use the categories, with proper categorization dependent on knowing what historic kingdoms and states existed when, and where the boundaries lay at any givem point in history. On that point, I agree with Miaow Miaow.Skeezix1000 (talk) 19:33, 27 October 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It would help if the categories had descriptions, e.g., Category:Czech Republic in the 14th century is presumably media that relates to the the geographical area of the current Czech Republic. Such categories seem well-defined and are probably useful (assuming that the current boundaries don't change often, and there aren't more useful geographical areas that could be used) and they can be used in addition to categories for historical kingdoms etc. ghouston (talk) 09:46, 2 November 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
However at present there's no indication that Category:History of the Czech Republic was intended to be geographic, rather it includes everything related to the "Czech states" or "Czech lands", so there's no reason to expect the dated subcategories to be geographic either. It seems reasonable to have a separate category for each of the historic states, which have any significant Czech component, where the current Czech Republic also has its own category. They could then be grouped into a broader Czech states category. Then geographically-based categories could be based on the territory of the current republic, or on entities like Bohemia or Moravia as ŠJů said above. ghouston (talk) 23:34, 2 November 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No consensus for a change. Sven Manguard Wha? 07:05, 10 June 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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